Podcast Episode 52: Baby Oil and Burgers with Lawrence Ballenger

Nick Collias: Welcome to The Bodybuilding.com Podcast. We're thinking of changing it to Bodybuilding.gov, it's what we're going for. That has a nice ring to it.

Heather Eastman: Global domination.

Nick: Today with us, we have a man, a face, a set of shoulders that you know very well if you've been on this website in the last five years, six years or so.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's been a while now.

Nick: Yeah. He's a Bodybuilding.com athlete, also sponsored by MuscleTech. Lawrence Ballenger, I should say his name. Awesome.

Lawrence Ballenger: Hey, everybody. It's very nice to be here. Thanks, guys.

Nick: Once upon a time, he stripped down for Bodies of Work: Volume 2?

Lawrence Ballenger: Most of the time I strip down. This is the most clothes you guys have ever seen me in.

Heather: That's true.

Nick: Yeah. He's not allowed in here unless he's mostly stripped.

Lawrence Ballenger: Short shorts.

Nick: The co-star of Project Mass with Jacob Wilson, one of our most popular programs on Bodybuilding.com BodyFit Elite, which is a really cool program. NPC Men's Physique.

Lawrence Ballenger: No. Classic Physique.

Heather: Classic Physique.

Nick: Classic Physique. I can never remember who's Physique and who's Classic Physique. It seems like people go back and forth.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's so weird ... I did do Men's Physique at the beginning, but being like 250 it's hard to fit in that ... It's hard to fit in Classic. So, I'm like this in-between person because I'm like 250 to 270 and they want me to be 230 for Classic, so that doesn't quite fit either.

Nick: 230.

Lawrence Ballenger: I like to eat, so ...

Heather: Yes. I've heard that.

Lawrence Ballenger: You guys will see that later. I may finish a seven-pound burger in like 17 minutes.

Nick: Oh, really? Well, speaking of that, you recently did polish off a pretty impressive burger and a whole bunch of other things in the Brute Strength Challenge.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah, where I tore my groin.

Nick: That's right.

Heather: That was his takeaway from that.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah. That's the most thing I remember from that.

Nick: Limping for days and days after.

Heather: That's generally memorable.

Lawrence Ballenger: The first thing, the first event I tore my groin.

Nick: Which one was that?

Lawrence Ballenger: The upright row. Before I even got to 300 pounds I tore it at 225.

Nick: To be clear, it was not intended to be an upright row competition, but Lawrence turned it into an upright row competition and won.

Heather: You got the little Olympian just flipping his arms under as fast as possible, and then you're sitting there just pulling that up?

Lawrence Ballenger: It's so much easier, just pull it up.

Heather: Yup.

Lawrence Ballenger: Why jump and everything? You know how much energy jumping takes?

Heather: Everyone's jaws just hitting the floor, yeah.

Nick: In case if somebody isn't aware with this, Brute Strength Challenge was a series on YouTube that it was a bodybuilder versus a powerlifter versus an Olympic lifter versus a CrossFitter. Pretty elite dudes from each one, all living in the same house, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah.

Nick: Sleeping on the same bed with sleeping caps on under the same blanket every night.

Lawrence Ballenger: It was an interesting event. Nobody knew how to cook so I had to be the cook, and that was fun. I tried to food poison them on the first day so I could get an extra edge.

Nick: Did you find that these guys were like in bed at 9:00, no candies sort of dudes?

Lawrence Ballenger: No. They actually were all horrible junkies like me. Eating pizza and tons of steak. I was probably the worst eater out of everybody because I eat like boxes of Pop-Tarts, Froot Loops, Swedish Fish. So, when I'm not on ketosis, I'm horrible. I'm probably the worst person to hang out with, ever.

Nick: It's either one extreme or the absolute other.

Heather: I have found that with people who do keto or dabble in keto, I should say, because it's hard to kind of sustain it long-term, where it's like if they're not on it...

Nick: I thought he was gonna drink out of the baby oil bottle.

Lawrence Ballenger: No, no.

Nick: Just drink some baby oil.

Heather: For those of you only listening, he's currently oiling himself up while I'm talking. So, I've been trying to go back to my thought, which was ...

Nick: Is baby oil keto, though? Do we ...

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, it has a small fat content and it makes me glisten, right.

Nick: It's made from babies after all. It is a small ...

Lawrence Ballenger: So much better.

Heather: So, my question was ...

Nick: It was just kind of dry in here, wasn't it?

Lawrence Ballenger: I had to do that for a friend, but ...

Heather: All right.

Nick: Were you gonna say there? Anyway, he tore his groin so he's gonna oil that up next. You're still working that out.

Heather: So, Swedish Fish, yes. In my experience with people who do keto, it's like you're either on it 100% or you're way over on the other side of the spectrum. What's been your experience with doing it and then seeing other people do it?

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, with keto I'm a little bit different just because I can eat 7000 calories like my maintenance calories. So, to knock me out of ketosis I have to have about a thousand grams of carbs to knock out of ketosis. So, I can eat four to 500 on a normal basis to stay in ketosis, not as high as I want to be, but I'll still be in ketosis.

Heather: So, you're saying if I weigh 230 pounds I can have a thousand grams of carbohydrates.

Lawrence Ballenger: But that will knock you out. But you can have 500.

Heather: I could have 500. Okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yes.

Heather: All right. So, all I have to do is gain 60 pounds of muscle.

Nick: Right. But 7000 pounds, or 7000 calories at maintenance also sounds like he's doing a lot of shit over the course of a day. Like ...

Lawrence Ballenger: No.

Nick: No?

Lawrence Ballenger: I have an office job, so I sit down 90% of the time. I have a seven pound dog that I walk around the block twice a day.

Nick: Do you carry this seven-pound dog?

Lawrence Ballenger: No. He usually comes with me. His name's Flex, he has a mohawk and we wear chains together.

Heather: What kind of dog is it?

Lawrence Ballenger: He's a Craigslist special. He cost me 25 bucks.

Nick: He's the Craigslist Terrier. Yeah.

Heather: So, seven pounds, that's like a snack size.

Lawrence Ballenger: He's literally, he's like a barking gerbil.

Heather: When he barks does he jump because it's so much force?

Lawrence Ballenger: He actually does, his little fur comes out. He's like "Arf!" I'm like, "That's my boy."

Nick: Mustache flies up.

Lawrence Ballenger: He's only mean when he's behind me. But besides that, he's super cool.

Nick: Did you bring the dog to the Brute house?

Lawrence Ballenger: No, I didn't bring him. I almost brought him this time.

Nick: You could've won. Only if the dog would bark...

Lawrence Ballenger: He's a great distraction. He's a great distraction.

Heather: Yeah. Totally.

Nick: When somebody's trying to figure out what their Fran time is, or whatever, whatever. Grace, you guys did Grace.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, that was fun.

Heather: You did Grace.

Nick: That was awful.

Heather: Yes, speaking of that. So again, there's this bodybuilder in the corner ... So, you got everyone, the CrossFitter's going super-fast. And then you're in the corner literally, just lifting it and press it.

Lawrence Ballenger: Making it easy.

Heather: It's supposed to be a clean and jerk and you're like, nope, no.

Nick: But the CrossFitter's push-press every one of those jerks, too.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's like doing a pull-up, and a kip-up. It's like two different things. I'm just gonna do a hundred pull-ups before I do a hundred kip-ups, that's way too much energy.

Heather: Yeah. ‘Cause that's kind of every bodybuilder's...

Nick: As long as it gets over your head, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: It's like, what are the rules?

Heather: Every bodybuilder's argument when they watch CrossFit is you're just using momentum. It's not really...

Lawrence Ballenger: It is difficult, though. Like, I had to give it up to Jacob. That it is very, very difficult. I do like CrossFit, I will put that out there. I do like it, it's just not for me. On a day-to-day basis.

Nick: You like watching it?

Lawrence Ballenger: I actually like doing CrossFit, when I can breathe.

Nick: That is the problem. Yeah. You might have blue Icee spray out of your nose.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, my God. That sounds so good. Can we have it for lunch?

Nick: After you spray it out your nose.

Heather: We have some kind of Icee machine downstairs, don't we?

Nick: Yeah, it's the amino Icee machine.

Heather: Oh, that's right.

Lawrence Ballenger: Wait, we actually have an Icee machine here?

Nick: Oh, no, no, it's just a soda fountain.

Heather: Oh, yeah. Sorry.

Lawrence Ballenger: Don't tease me like that.

Nick: But we have the...

Heather: We do have snacks. We have lots of snacks.

Nick: There's the soft ice. Right. I mean, you could take the soft ice, shake it up really, really hard. Put it... I think you could make that.

Lawrence Ballenger: That sounds like a lot of work. I know you guys have a 7-11 close by, let's just go get a Slurpee.

Nick: Yeah, seriously. I mean, 7000 calories in maintenance. You can't burn extra by doing that ‘cause you're gonna have to eat another hundred.

Lawrence Ballenger: But mostly, it's like heavy whipping cream. I probably drink three to four cups of heavy whipping cream a day.

Heather: Nice.

Nick: Just like drinking a cup of it?

Lawrence Ballenger: My protein shakes are four scoops of NitroTech and then a couple of heavy whipping cream. And then some water and ice.

Heather: All right then.

Nick: I like that. Do you do whip it before you do it? Or you just drink it?

Lawrence Ballenger: I just drink it.

Nick: Because I've been known to drink the occasional cup of heavy cream, as well. It's actually really delicious.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's really good. It's kind of sweet, too.

Nick: Exactly. But you got to commit to it, right? And once you get about halfway through, you feel better than you think.

Heather: You do.

Lawrence Ballenger: You don't feel sick.

Heather: You do. And fun fact: Starbucks does carry it, you just have to ask for it.

Lawrence Ballenger: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Nick: Really?

Heather: Yeah. If you go through the drive-thru...

Nick: "Can I have a cup of cream, please?"

Heather: ...you have to ask, "Can you put heavy cream in my coffee?" They'll do it.

Lawrence Ballenger: I feel like such a diva though, asking. I'm like, can I have a cup? And they're like, wait... A cup of heavy whipping cream is like $5. This coffee was only two bucks.

Nick: Can you just pour it into my mouth as I pass the drive-thru?

Lawrence Ballenger: I actually make money going to Starbucks.

Nick: But that brings me... A question that I was wondering as I was watching you with this CrossFit guy with the powerlifter. Have you ever really been tempted to try other strength sports or have you been a pretty pure bodybuilder from the start?

Lawrence Ballenger: I'm going to do a classic physique show either in two weeks, if I can get down my weight. It's hard for me to get under 250, like usually I'm around 270. Under 250 is very difficult. But if I make my weight, then I'll do it. If not, I'm gonna do a strongman competition. I don't like powerlifting like deadlift and bench press. Like that's just so boring to me. But like picking up Atlas stones pulling semi-trucks that's how it's where my pec and I love it.

Nick: As your pec was springing across the room you're like, sign me up.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, two years ago I was helping and doing the Special Olympics event to raise some money so we're pulling semi-trucks. Then after we did the semi-trucks and like a few other little things I was like, oh yeah, I still feel great even though I'm exhausted I got bruises all over me. Let's go to shoot a YouTube video and jump into doing incline press with dumbbells and after like the eighth rep with like this 250 dumbbell, my arm gives out in my chest rips. I have it on video, it's pretty cool. It sounds like Velcro and yeah sounds just like Velcro and it didn't hurt but it sounds disgusting.

Nick: It didn't hurt? How could it not hurt?

Lawrence Ballenger: Well all you hear is, like oh, what happened? Oh, my arm's still attached and it's... Great. Well, it didn't roll too bad...

Heather: Yeah, I was going to say, did it roll up or...? ‘Cause I've seen biceps that just, you know...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no, I still got... Okay, you guys get to see some free titty, side tit...

Nick: I mean you've been oiling up over there for...

Heather: You've already oiled up. What more can you...

Lawrence Ballenger: I want to make sure that I'm glistening and have the right color. I have been tanning.

Nick: Can't show a nipple.

Heather: That's right.

Lawrence Ballenger: I have... So, it kind of rolled up and oh no, it looks kind of decent, I don't know. Got a little hole right there though. Yeah, well, I think that's like a sexy like dimple that I go for now.

Nick: You know that could be the thing that puts you over the top in strongman, they call you "Dimple Nipple." That's your tough guy strongman name. So, but... But, so you were just doing incline presses when you did that, though, you weren't doing strongman stuff?

Lawrence Ballenger: No, I wasn't doing strongman stuff, so I was like, well, let's do this again and try that for like the wintertime or maybe like the Arnold this year, just to have some fun.

Nick: Oh, okay, so at the Arnold or after the Arnold?

Lawrence Ballenger: I want to do at the Arnold, but I have to qualify for it, so I was like...

Nick: That's pretty... The Arnold I mean, of course, there's like the Arnold Strongman where they have the mountain and shit like that, but then there's other... There's other stuff, as well.

Lawrence Ballenger: They have like the amateur Arnold where like a strongman event. I was like, okay, that sounds like fun.

Nick: So, you've been out there in the parking lot training that sort of stuff?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah so, it's in downtown Chicago it's hard to like pull a semi-truck or fire trucks and things like that, but we go to like the suburbs and there's a lot of fun there. You could pull semi-trucks, fire trucks, lift up little Honda Civics and stuff like that.

Nick: This from the guy who if you go read the original profile of Lawrence on Bodybuilding.com, BodySpace Member of the Month, got pinned by 50 pounds under the bench press when he was 15 years old.

Lawrence Ballenger: Ugh. Man, how many times do we have to talk about that today?!

Nick: This is his origin story.

Lawrence Ballenger: This is literally the third time.

Nick: Really? I had no idea.

Lawrence Ballenger: Good God. You guys want to bring up like the worst times of my life!

Nick: But it's just kind of funny to hear. You know, I can't get under 250 no matter how hard I try. I'm gonna do the frickin' strongman Arnold, this is... Yeah. How long ago was this?

Lawrence Ballenger: This was... I'm 31. So, 16 years ago...

Nick: 16 years ago.

Lawrence Ballenger: ...on Thanksgiving. It was horrible. So, it all started... I had a crush on this girl. She's like, "Oh, I'm coming over your cousin's house for Thanksgiving." Yes, this is gonna be awesome! I'm finally going to ask her out and be like, I'm gonna be the man. And so, we go downstairs. And there's about 20 kids all from church and family members. And my cousin got this new bench press. It was super, super cool. 50 pounds total on the bar. Everybody's doing it for 20 or 30 reps.

Nick: So, wait, 50 pounds, so like...

Lawrence Ballenger: Total, like...

Nick: So, 95, basically?

Lawrence Ballenger: You remember the little sand weights that you could get where the bar is super thin and blue? Okay.

Nick: Oh, okay. So, it was like a 15-pound bar.

Heather: So, it wasn't like a standard Olympic bar.

Nick: So, it's basically, the bar. Yeah.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's basically the bar.

Heather: I'm sitting there trying to do the math. I'm like, you have to... How do you do like 5 on each side?

Nick: Oh, man, those sand weights, yeah.

Lawrence Ballenger: It might not have been 50 pounds, it might have been 45. I'm trying to hype myself up on this. So, please don't keep adding it up.

Nick: Hey, that extra... you know.

Heather: It was 37, it's okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, I get underneath the bar. We un-rack, and he's like, "Are you good?" I'm like, yeah, I'm good. He let's go. It like concaves my chest in...

Nick: Like Wiley Coyote.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, my gosh. It knocks the wind out of me. And my feet go up in the air. I'm screaming, "Please! I can't get it up." And he's laughing I'm like, what a douche bag. Help me. My face says help me. You see I can't breathe?

Nick: If your feet are really kicking like that. That is kind of funny. Like if we're not talking about 300 pounds.

Lawrence Ballenger: Okay. We're no longer friends. You can be over?

Nick: You take your body, baby oil, and leave.

Lawrence Ballenger: And to make it worse like everybody's dying laughing. I played football and golf at that point. So, I thought I was super cool. But I looked more like a dirty Q-tip walking around than anything. Just a big bobble head with a skinny-ass body. And I talked a lot of shit. I guess that part hasn't changed. But they called the girl that had a crush on from upstairs. Like, "Hey, come down. Let's try this."

Nick: While you're still pinned?

Lawrence Ballenger: Right after I got up, and she does it for 22 reps. And they're like, "Oh, he couldn't do it for one. Ha ha." I'm like, "Oh, God." Umm, to let you guys know, I never dated.

Nick: I was going to say, that's when you just wade into it. You say...

Heather: You could start a great romantic comedy right there.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, the only funny thing was me.

Nick: So, after that you're like, that's it... Gainer shakes all the way.

Lawrence Ballenger: After that. I grabbed the first Muscle and Fitness. I'll never forget to have Mike O'Hearn on the cover. And I was like, I want to be just like this guy. So, I start...

Nick: He looks exactly the same now as he did then.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah, he hasn't aged at all.

Nick: He sleeps in a tube at night or something.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's really weird because I've known him for like... He was actually... helped me on my first competition. I met him actually in Boise. When I did the... what was that the first Spokesmodel Contest that you guys have, like a USA Spokemodel contest. And I met him in the locker room when I passed out, because I did not know how to diet correctly. He taps on me, he's like, are you okay? When I'm laying in the sauna trying to lose weight. And I was like, yeah, and he's like, you know, you're doing this all wrong. I was like, really? He's like, "Yeah, come with me." And he's been a great friend.

Nick: Come with me. I'll show you the way.

Lawrence Ballenger: I was like, "Oh, my God, the timing was so cool!" And he brought me dinner. And he's like, I'm gonna show you how to actually work out and he's been cool ever since.

Nick: Okay. So, pretty much from the start then, it was even though you were getting pinned under 50 pounds. Like he's a heavy lifting dude.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah.

Nick: So very, it was about going heavy to get bigger.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah. And ever since I met him when I was probably 23, I've been lifting a lot heavier versus doing volume training and it gave me great muscle density. So, when I diet down, my muscles don't really go away.

Nick: Okay, interesting. So, but, that's only part of it, though.

Lawrence Ballenger: That's only like...

Nick: You've got to eat like a weed if you're the dirty Q-tip guy.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah, I was eating... Well, first off, you know, like you go to the gym, and you see a bigger guy, like, "Oh, what do you eat?" Peanut butter and jelly, rice, eat as many McDonald's... I was skinny fat. So that didn't work. So, I started actually, like educating myself. I went and got like a personal training certificate when I was 17. That didn't work because they didn't teach you nutrition. So, then I went to school for exercise physiology. And then I started learning nutrition. I left that degree for a whole different reason, we're not going to talk about that, and I got into marketing, but I still loved fitness. So, I kept taking courses on nutrition. And that really taught me what I could eat, and how to actually grow properly. And then everything starts to add up a lot quicker. And I was able to make my gains a lot faster.

Nick: So, what do you feel like...? I mean, for that person who's, you know, at the before end of that, what's the one that thing that you can tell them, it's like, you know, this actually is what made the difference?

Lawrence Ballenger: What made the difference is finding out what your maintenance calories are. Not everybody's gonna be able to afford a metabolic cart. There we go. So, if you can't do that cart to figure out your calories, Bodybuilding.com has a great calculator that you guys can use. It gets you really, really close and then go 2000-3000 calories above that.

Nick: 2000-3000?

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, you figure a mass-gaining shake's gonna give you an extra 1000 calories. Have an extra two of those a day. So, I know it's really hard when you're skinny to actually get the meals in. Drink your meals, it's a lot easier than eating them.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay.

Heather: That kind of ties into we had the ISSN guys up here. And they were talking about the studies they've been doing on consuming protein. And like, they are doubling, tripling even quadrupling normal protein levels. And they find that even just doing that alone, even with the extra calories that adds...

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah, because it keeps you in protein synthesis a lot longer.

Heather: You build muscle, you lose fat, like these people are ending up even though they're eating hundreds to thousands more calories a day, they're actually coming out with more muscle and the lower body fat percentage. Yeah.

Lawrence Ballenger: And leaner physiques. So usually, like when I first got into this, everybody was making fun of me, because I have three to four protein shakes that were 100 grams of protein each in between my high-carb meals... This is before I got into ketosis, and they're like, there's no way you're gonna be able to stay lean doing this. And actually, I got leaner and bigger doing that.

Nick: 100 grams a piece, though, right? Everybody's all about the protein timing. Ooh, it's 20 to 40. What? What do you feel like 100 does that 40 doesn't?

Lawrence Ballenger: Build more muscle because you're not being... Okay, wait, don't cuss.

Nick: No, you can cuss all you want. It just goes on YouTube.

Heather: This is The Bodybuilding.com Podcast, you can say whatever you want.

Lawrence Ballenger: Okay, so basically not being a bitch. You guys, like most people don't have intensity in the workouts. They're saving all their energy for the next exercise, for the next day. They're not thinking about that rep, that set, and just giving it all they have. So, they're not pushing themselves hard enough to really use all the protein.

Nick: And actually damage the muscle enough, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: And damage the muscle. I want to heal as fast as possible, so you need more protein for that. And then we haven't protein you either need fats or carbs for energy source. So right now, I prefer fats just because it keeps me leaner throughout the year. And as a lot of other side effects that we can talk about.

Nick: Well, I'm wondering if a 100g protein shake has some side effects...

Lawrence Ballenger: It does. It's called awesomeness.

Nick: That thing could keep you single, you could clear out a room.

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, that's what probiotic... Like, so I'll take that. I have my probiotics enzymes, digestive enzymes as well. I eat spinach by like the handfuls, Popeye-style and...

Nick: Spinach and...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, I'm a savage. I literally just grab it like a claw and go for it.

Nick: Interesting. Yeah, I remember we had an article a few years ago, or maybe I don't think we ever did an article of it, but there was a study that came out about The Rock because The Rock said, "This is how I eat." And when they broke it down. It actually was like, you know, 450-500 grams of protein a day. And people are saying like, "Okay, based on everything we know about that, you know, you top out in muscle protein synthesis at 20, 30, 40 grams, what does that actually do?" And they said, it's because his workouts are actually so intense that the damage that the damage that does he, that's where it goes.

The thing I don't like as most of those studies are for average people that either are sedentary or don't actually work out intensely. So, they don't usually do it with people that are into fitness, and work out every day intensely and have a purpose versus just your normal weekend warrior or somebody that's sitting down 99% of the time.

Heather: So, for those people that are sitting in the office, like they will top out at that 20-30 grams...

Lawrence Ballenger: They'll probably top out at 30 grams of protein.

Heather: But they can still benefit something extra protein.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no, I think they could definitely benefit. But it's not going to be the same as somebody that wants to get off of work. They have an hour and a half long workout where they're literally dying and vomit two to three times a week.

Heather: Speaking of dying and vomit, you said you're not that in, like you, you are kind of into CrossFit. You're not that into CrossFit. Like how do you incorporate those kind of workouts into your... Because he said you'll do it as long as you can breathe.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, CrossFit... Ever since I got older now I have a deload week, okay, and I'm not a fan of it. So, I have to make it fun because I don't like light weights. So, I do blood flow restriction training on my deload weeks.

Nick: Only on deload? Interesting.

Lawrence Ballenger: Only on deload. Just because I can still feel a pump. It's hard for me to feel a pump with anything under 70% of my 1RM just because I get bored.

Nick: Right.

Heather: And we have a calculator for that, too.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yes, we do.

Nick: You get bored after six reps?

Lawrence Ballenger: I'm like, man, what's the point?

Nick: Right.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, I'll do light weights but it's usually like blood flow restriction. Or I'll throw in something like CrossFit. Because after all these years, like you've been through all the movements, you've tried all the machines. What's next? What's there to keep you interested to stay inside the gym? Nothing.

Nick: So, you just wander around playing on stuff.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah, like, okay, I might as well to be on Instagram or go home and watch a movie. Or what's the point of doing this?

Nick: No, I get that.

Heather: Yeah, CrossFit does provide that inherent competition. Even if it's just yourself, you can set a timer, and just push yourself to go faster.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no. When there's a 40-pound girl standing next to me and she's doing basically like... Because I do it by percentage of body weight. So, she's doing the exact same effort as I am. And I'm like, she's killing it. I just can't learn outwork me. So, you want to keep doing it.

Nick: Compete with anybody and everything.

Lawrence Ballenger: Compete with anybody and everybody. So, it makes it fun.

Nick: So, now, you talked a little about keto, and BFR, those are two things that I totally associate with Jake Wilson, right? And you were sort of like, as far as I could tell, the lab rat, that Jake and Lowry were like just trying stuff out on for a long time. Like, it was always, "Here, we're gonna do some stuff to Lawrence and we're going to show you what's happening in his body."

And that's part of the basis of Project Mass, too, it's like looking inside the muscle during blood flow restriction training. So how did you cross paths?

Lawrence Ballenger: Before Project Mass...

Nick: I'm gonna cough over here, too, everybody.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, man, mucus came out.

Nick: Yeah, baby. Well, yeah, that's what these are for. We got the spit guards here. It's like a salad bar.

Heather: Yup, safe for licking.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, I worked for Dymatize, and Dr. Jacob was actually on our advisory board. And then I started linking up on with them on a personal level and going out to Tampa. And I was really curious about some of the work that he was doing with the University of Tampa. So, I was like, you know what, let's start working together on just YouTube and having fun. So, I would fly out there. He's like, ooh, we're working on keto. We're working on intermittent fasting. We're working on blood flow restriction. I was like, okay, these are all new things that nobody else has really tapping into. And I still had a lot of injuries from football. So, I was like, maybe this will help my joints a little bit and all actually helped increase my longevity. Besides the tears, right? (Because I'm not Superman.)

Nick: If you're gonna be doing strongman, you're gonna get hurt. There's no way around it.

Heather: Yeah, you're going to tear something or break something.

Lawrence Ballenger: I thought I was Superman, I thought can do a little bit of everything. And I don't like resting because I get bored. I didn't even rest through my chest tear. I just kept doing as much as I could.

Nick: But that's one thing that blood flow restriction training can allow you to do is really work through injuries effectively, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah, supposedly I would never be able to bench press again. And yeah, I'm back up to reppin' 405 on incline.

Nick: I saw that. Yeah, that did not look... fun.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah, I'm back to squatting... Like, I tore my groin in May. And I'm back to squatting 650. So, we're like right back to normal.

Nick: Yeah. So, what sort of stuff did you feel like, wow, this is completely changing me? That was brand new to you then, like you mentioned intra-set stretching. They didn't put you on the HMB diet or something like...?

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, HMB, my gosh, I love that. They just don't have a pure enough form for you to take... but he had the good stuff.

Nick: That sweet government issue... They grow it in the secret HMB crop...

Lawrence Ballenger: But, I think blood flow restriction, I think was number one for me, just because I was able to gain a lot more size with a lot less effort and a lot less damage. The pain is really intense...

Nick: If you're doing it right.

Lawrence Ballenger: If you're doing it right. And as long as you can handle that pain, you'll be fine.

Nick: Okay, so like, how often a week did you feel like you'd be doing that when it worked best?

Lawrence Ballenger: I still I only like it maybe once a week. Just because I'm a big fan of heavy lifting, right? That's just something I like to increase my bone density. I like to feel my joints and tendons get hurt. And I just like feeling heavy weight.

Heather: You'd like to feel them get hurt?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah. It's just, it's... When you feel like you're crushing into the ground, you're like, "Yes!", because once you pick it up and then you set it down, you're like, "I can crack concrete now."

Heather: Okay.

Nick: No, I understand that. We had a podcast [episode] we did with a guy named Charles Staley who is a great strength coach who did a program for us and he's a big believer that if you want your body to change, it has to feel threatened. That's the dividing line between stuff that works and stuff that doesn't, is... your system is like "I am seriously threatened right now."

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah, if I want to die... And then yeah, you're gonna fight a little bit harder.

Heather: You talked about that 40% rule. When like, when you think you're dying, or when you think you've maxed out you're actually only at about 40% of your true capacity, so...

Lawrence Ballenger: Totally. Like that's why I like to squat outside the rack. Um, once you put that little danger aspect, it makes it a lot more fun.

Heather: Get that little adrenaline rush, yeah.

Nick: The danger gains, that's what we're all about.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oooh, new training series.

Nick: New handle, at least. MC Danger Gains.

Heather: I'm going to write that down.

Nick: Umm, so, you know, bringing it back to blood flow restriction just for a second, because it's something that like, I hear a lot about. I've tried, but it seems like everybody who talks about it, they basically do the same protocol. It's like the 30-15-15-15.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no.

Nick: What are some of your favorite blood flow restriction ways to approach it? Because if you just look around online, everybody just does the same thing that was in the study.

Lawrence Ballenger: No, I don't do exactly what's in the study, because I don't believe that's really where it's at. So, I do about 50% of my 1RM, I like to do sets of 30 to 50 instead, though.

Nick: Umm. To 50?

Heather: 30 to 50.

Nick: Okay, so are you even counting at that point? Or you're just...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no, you're literally trying to go with the clock. Every rep is a second, and you're trying to go for...

Nick: Okay, and pumping ‘em out. Not really focusing on, yeah...

Lawrence Ballenger: Just pumping, pumping, pumping, just trying to... So, I got these cool new straps that like kind of click in and they show like the number so you know, like the intensity level.

Nick: Ooh neat, where'd you get those?

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, I could put a link down but they're not paying me yet.

Nick: You gotta hook this podcast up, we need some of those.

Heather: You're supposed to say Bodybuilding.com.

Lawrence Ballenger: You don't have ‘em here yet.

Nick: Yeah, I know. I know.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, I can't put that out there. Guys, use knee wraps.

Nick: I mean, you can use knee wraps, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: Knee wraps are great, but they're so thick.

Nick: Right.

Lawrence Ballenger: Especially when using them for your arms, but they're great for like your inner groin if you're doing that part and doing squats. So, like, if you're doing like a 1,000-squat challenge, I think it's great to do.

Nick: Hmm, thousand squat challenge.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah.

Nick: Okay. Again, with what?

Lawrence Ballenger: With like 225.

Nick: Huh.

Heather: 225.

Nick: Okay. So how many...? So, you're doing sets of, just...

Lawrence Ballenger: As many as possible. Take it to 1000.

Nick: Over and over and over? How long does that take you?

Lawrence Ballenger: And over and over. Two hours.

Heather: That sounds about right.

Nick: Wow. Just resting as little as possible?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah. Just going until you vomit and then you keep on moving.

Nick: Interesting.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, it's not interesting.

Nick: No, actually... You know, come to think of it, that does not sound very interesting.

Heather: Sounds horrible. Absolutely horrific.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's horrible. It's horrible.

Nick: Sounds horrible to watch. Sounds horrible to hear. Like, I imagine you make some horrible noises in the middle.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's one of those that, like, you want to shoot for YouTube, but you got to mute part of it. Just because you know you're gonna...

Nick: "Ugggh."

Lawrence Ballenger: It's not even the "ugggh", it's the F bombs you're gonna be dropping.

Nick: Just inventing new swears all the time.

Lawrence Ballenger: It's like... I think that was a... Yeah, you shouldn't just be saying those things.

Nick: Okay. So, basically... So, with arms, you do the same sort of thing, though? Where just...

Lawrence Ballenger: Ah, yeah, like...

Nick: Just hit it over and over again. 5, 6, 7 sets.

Lawrence Ballenger: Over... Yeah, 5, 6, 7 sets, sets of 30 to 50. And I try to keep it to like five exercises. Keeps like a 45-minute workout. Just because you get so much blood in that muscle right that it takes a while to heal from that. But the great part is like after you get done with blood flow restriction, you can do chest and you'll still get the benefits, but it'll be like a third to 40% of what it was on your arms.

Nick: Supersetting biceps and triceps, or just really hammering biceps, mostly?

Lawrence Ballenger: I hammer biceps and then switch over to triceps.

Nick: Okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: Just because triceps, like, stretch it out.

Nick: Wow, that sounds like it could be a terrifying pump.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, it's great, though. But I usually don't do arms anymore. I stopped doing arms probably five or six years ago.

Nick: Really? Hmm.

Heather: Wait, what?

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, my arms grow faster than every other body part.

Heather: Okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, I try not to do, like, at all.

Heather: Okay, that makes sense.

Lawrence Ballenger: So, they're already like too big.

Heather: I can relate to that because my ass grows faster than any other body part.

Lawrence Ballenger: Mine does, too. Like, no joke. I got a bikini booty back here. I sit down and grow an inch.

Nick: If you want to see it, it's on Bodies of Work. His body...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah. I got striations. And now that I've been losing weight, there's like three veins back there.

Heather: I don't have that.

Lawrence Ballenger: You're a girl, you shouldn't.

Nick: I wanted to ask you a little bit more about keto bodybuilding, too. Because, you know, you were able to get in on that pretty early. You know, ketosis and ketogenic dieting has been around for a long time in a medical setting. But the idea that you could eat that way and actually have muscle gains and use it for bodybuilding, in general, is relatively new, and you were able to get in pretty early.

Lawrence Ballenger: Still people fight it a lot.

Nick: So like, what was...? Was it freaky for you, at first, to wrap your brain around that?

Lawrence Ballenger: It was hard to think that I was going to gain muscle or even be able to keep my strength just because it took me a while to get into ketosis–took me about 21 days the first time, and I got a little bit sick. And most people do kind of get a keto flu. So, it took me a while to like, understand, like, do I want to keep doing this when my strength drops 30 to 40%?

Nick: And you there with the pee strip every morning? It's still not there...

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, I had what's called a Ketonix, the little blower. So, I blew into that, like, after every meal, just hoping like, "Come on, light up green." ‘Cause like green's like...

Heather: That sounds way better. Yeah!

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no. You're blowing for 20 seconds. So, like I don't breathe that much. I'm a heavy mouth breather as it is, I breathe like a St. Bernard. I'm just trying to, like, get this damn thing green.

And the first time I went green was after, I remember, it's the 22nd day. I was like, "Yes!" Then I called Dr. Jacob, I was like, "So, can I have my cheat meal yet?" He's like, "No, you just got in it. So, now you gotta keep going for like another 14 days, and then you get a cheat meal." I was like, this is some bullshit.

Nick: But that's a really common error that we hear from people. It's like "Yay, I made it! Now it's time to have a refeed."

Heather: I made it, now I can eat whatever I want!

Nick: Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It takes a long time.

Lawrence Ballenger: Whoa, whoa, long time. Like slow down, hold your horses. You can have that box of Frosted Flakes and, like, 20 donuts later.

Nick: So, yeah, how different did you feel, then, four weeks later–when he said, "All right, now you can actually do it"?

Lawrence Ballenger: Um, so after like, I got into ketosis. Actually, I didn't want to get off of it... Took me a month to actually have my first cheat meal, just because the clarity that you have, like, your mind's not foggy. I don't sleep well. I probably sleep three to four hours because right now I'm getting my MBA, I work and then I got a few little side projects. So, ketosis helps me like relax, sleep a little bit better, keeps my mind functioning a little bit sharper. And then I don't need as much caffeine, either. So like, those are all big pluses. Because caffeine just makes me jittery, more than it actually keeps me awake.

Heather: Yeah, yeah. I only dabbled in ketosis. But it's, it's not for someone who wants to feel those things instantly. You definitely have to put weeks and weeks into it.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah. You gotta put time, commitment into it. I think it's more of a lifestyle than it is a diet.

Heather: Yeah.

Nick: But you mentioned that you can have a ton of carbs, though. Did it take you a while to figure that part out?

Heather: He can have a ton of carbs.

Nick: Not everybody can do that.

Lawrence Ballenger: No, no, not everybody can do that. Most people have to stay around 25 grams of carbs. Um, and that's what I advise most people to do. I just got to test it out because I was with Dr. Jacob. So, he could pin me a lot. And we can kind of figure out where my threshold was.

Nick: So, are you basically a freak, then, in this regard?

Lawrence Ballenger: I'm just a freak, and just got lucky. That's really–I just got lucky. But most people can't do that.

Nick: Right. Okay. Okay, so what recommendations do you have, then, for somebody who's–because it's everywhere, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah.

Nick: It's getting to the point where it's pretty annoying right now. But, you know, we can't avoid it. We have to talk about it. Like...

Heather: We could talk about something else, if you want.

Nick: No. Yeah, I feel like you have to talk about keto, because it's just there. All the goddamn time.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yes, it's popping up on the news and every...

Nick: Right.

Lawrence Ballenger: That's just a daily topic, almost.

Nick: Yeah. So, do you feel like you are... you kind of ended up being an ambassador for it, too?

Lawrence Ballenger: I think so. Which is weird, because I've never been an ambassador for a diet because I'm a fat-ass at heart. I eat a lot, like for breakfast this morning was 14 eggs and 17 turkey patties.

Nick: Let's see. Okay, that's... That's pretty serious.

Heather: That's a pretty solid breakfast. Yeah.

Lawrence Ballenger: I usually have 21 eggs, one pound of bacon, two cups of heavy whipping cream. Then a protein shake. But I'm traveling, so...

Heather: That little protein shake on top...

Nick: Okay, so just the volume that your stomach is capable of holding sounds pretty mean, too.

Heather: Oh, yeah. I spend more on food than I do on rent. That's actually not a joke, though. It's really sad.

Nick: No, I believe you if you're eating 14 eggs for breakfast.

Heather: Feeding bodybuilders is hard, man.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah. Oh, you guys will get the bill for lunch. Just wait and see!

Nick: Can you tell us what you ordered for lunch? I'm just...

Lawrence Ballenger: So, I'm gonna eat a five-pound burger. Um...

Nick: A five-pound burger. Like, did you order five one-pound burgers? Or did you say "Hey, could you tape five patties together for me?"

Lawrence Ballenger: No. So, the cool part is they have, like, these little, thin patties. So, I'm gonna eat 30 patties, which equals five pounds.

Nick: 30 damn patties! From Big Jud's?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yes, from Big Jud's. So, I'm gonna eat 30 of those patties.

Nick: Oh, man. Can we get this...?

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, we're getting it on... footage.

Heather: We're gonna get...?

Nick: Okay. Is it gonna be here? Can we bring this in and see your hamburger here while we're on the podcast?

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, this'll be easy... Everyone's like, oh, can you actually eat them? Like, come on now.

Nick: 30 patties!

Heather: Wait, have you done their challenge...

Nick: "The Dirty 30."

Heather: ...with the burger that's like the size of a dinner plate?

Lawrence Ballenger: I ate a seven-pound burger, fries, and two beers in 16 minutes.

Heather: Wow!

Lawrence Ballenger: The beers weren't included. I was just thirsty.

Nick: So yeah, I mean... But that's the challenge, is like fittin' the volume of that in there, right?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah, I'm going to do that and do a photo shoot afterwards. This is like... it's not a lot of food. I do this all the time. Most of my dinners, like three-pound rib-eyes, and stuff like that.

Nick: Right. But, somebody who wants to eat, like... I love to eat massive amounts, and I just can't do it. How do you do it though, and still feel okay? Aside from, okay, my physique can burn it off.

Lawrence Ballenger: Um, you get used to it over the years. Like at the beginning, I could not eat that much. I thought I ate a lot. But I really didn't. Like I would get full after like, two sandwiches or something of that nature. Um, but you just eat so much to the point where you want to vomit. And then you stack more food on it.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). The vomit's gonna come out, block it with more food!

Lawrence Ballenger: And then you just sit there...

Heather: What I'm hearing is he's trained himself to do this. It's like anything else.

Nick: Right. Like a competitive eater.

Heather: He's trained himself to be a competitive eater.

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, you're not gonna get to 270 not eating.

Nick: Right.

Heather: So, you got to, like, keep eating and eating and eating. Like, okay, there we go.

Heather: But you're not...

Nick: Okay, so, but...

Heather: I can't just eat 7000 calories a day and get to 270 pounds of just, like, twisted steel?

Lawrence Ballenger: You can!

Nick: Hmm.

Heather: Mmm, I don't know if it's gonna be steel.

Lawrence Ballenger: I think you could.

Nick: But at the same... The difference is... So, I talked with Branch Warren about this topic. And he's like, you know, sometimes I just hate to eat so goddamn much, basically, it's like...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, I know. That's because he's probably doesn't know how to cook. I'm a great...

Nick: Yeah, he eats game meat like three times a day.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yeah.

Nick: But, also, he's doing it for the Olympia. Like, he has that... historically, he's got that hanging over him. You seem like you're able to do this and still enjoy it.

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, yeah. So, you guys know Kevin from Fit Men Cook? He's a good friend of mine.

Nick: Of course.

Heather: Yes.

Lawrence Ballenger: And so like, will cook together when I'm back in Dallas sometimes. And like I have a lot of friends like Patrick Stark, like Food Network chefs, that like teach me little tricks of the trade so I can make my food good versus just I'm not eating some crap. Oh, I'm gonna eat basic eggs every morning. No! I'm not eatin' a basic rib-eye. No. I'm gonna stuff mine with ricotta cheese...

Nick: Ah, okay.

Heather: Okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: ...beat it down a little bit and make pinwheel steaks, and...

Heather: So, you're not doing like the typical bodybuilder, like scarfing down dry, grilled chicken until you basically choke?

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, God, no.

Heather: Okay, good.

Lawrence Ballenger: No, I'm making a meal.

Nick: But a pinwheel steak, a seven-pound pinwheel steak, that's not a pinwheel anymore, man. It's like a monster truck!

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, I use... Well, you make like four or five of them. And then like my apartment complex has like four grills. So, I just take them all up. I'm like, "This is mine today." And everybody knows me. So, they're cool with it.

Nick: Hmm, wow. And... you talk about protein. So, one thing I wanted to ask you because, you know, everybody hears, "Oh, the ketogenic diet, it's the moderate protein diet," right? It's 90% fat, 75% fat and that protein will take you out of ketosis. How did you find that sweet spot for you?

Lawrence Ballenger: For me, I do what I want in life.

Nick: You go in and out of ketosis and who cares, or?

Lawrence Ballenger: No, I stay in ketosis 90% of the time, but I can have more protein for some odd reason, but my fat content's quite high. So usually my protein's around anywhere between 400 and 700 grams but so is my fat content, and it's usually equal to that.

Nick: Okay, huh. And do you find that like, when you're eating that volume of food, do you have to eat one thing first, or can you just all shovel it in?

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, it's just all going to the same spot.

Nick: Do you quickly...? I'm trying to imagine, like, I've eaten six eggs in a sitting. I've never eaten 14. How long does it take you to eat 14 eggs?

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, I dunno...

Heather: Eggs don't take up that much room, Nick.

Nick: Yeah, but 14 of them does!

Heather: They really don't! Like once you've...

Lawrence Ballenger: Like if you eat a boiled egg. You can just pop that little bad boy like a Tic Tac. That's gone.

Heather: Yeah.

Nick: Right. Well, I guess I did participate in a pickled egg eating contest one time. I got 10 and a half of ‘em. That was... I was pretty proud of myself for that.

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, that's actually good!

Nick: Yeah, egg-xactly!

Heather: I've never competitively eaten, but I have a feeling I'd be pretty good at it, I say confidently.

Lawrence Ballenger: Would you like to do the burger challenge with me today?

Heather: So, I'm like gonna...

Nick: Yes. He has such a debonair voice, how could you say no?

Heather: Are we filming this?

Nick: Damn right we are!

Heather: I mean, I guess it could be my non-vegan day. Like, that's what I've been...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, you're a vegan?

Heather: I've been dabbling in vegan just because, like, I was looking for something that allows me to kinda...

Lawrence Ballenger: Shit, you should've opened up with this!

Nick: But she's a cheater vegan.

Heather: I'm a cheater vegan. I'm like a six-day-a-week vegan and I was looking for something where I can kind of eat whatever I want, whenever I want, but still like be clean, be healthy, and you know, I kept reading all this stuff on dairy and meat and so I was like, "You know what, screw it. Let's try it." And I'm a, like, "I'm a go home and eat a giant salad" kind of girl anyway, so it works perfectly for me. But all my cheat days, I'm eating eggs, and you know, that's why...

Nick: Seven-pound rib-eyes.

Heather: Well, I used to have... I had 24 chickens at one point, and those little suckers were pumping out 20 eggs a day.

Nick: Oh, yeah.

Lawrence Ballenger: Whoa. Wait, where do you have 24 chickens?

Heather: I had property out...

Nick: I was benefiting from this.

Heather: This is Idaho...

Lawrence Ballenger: Where do you live?

Heather: This is Idaho, man, we got lots of...

Lawrence Ballenger: How far... Okay, like, I...

Nick: She lives on Chicken Mountain. Maybe you've heard of it? (Laughs.)

Heather: But, you know, when you've got 20 eggs coming in a day you start to learn how to just fit eggs into everything.

Lawrence Ballenger: You're a farm girl?

Heather: Not really, I'm the city girl. I can...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, so like you're actually cute. Farm girls aren't usually cute.

Nick: The chickens, though, are not cute. There's some ugly-ass chickens.

Heather: So, anyways, back to this... So, five pounds of meat is what you're eating today?

Lawrence Ballenger: Yes.

Heather: Okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: You do three, I'll do five?

Heather: Oh, okay.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yes!

Nick: But this is... 30 patties.

Lawrence Ballenger: Ah, yeah, it'll be easy.

Heather: 30 patties, so I'm only committing to what? 20?

Nick: I mean, this...

Lawrence Ballenger: You can do 15.

Heather: Yeah, holy heck!

Nick: This sounds in my mind, it sounds like a... more like a wedding cake than a hamburger. It's gotta be like...

Lawrence Ballenger: Well, you know, they might stack them up and do two or, you know, they just keep throwing out hot ones, so you just keep popping them in like little sliders.

Nick: Yeah, you know, I'm hoping we can figure out a way to film this. If not...

Lawrence Ballenger: Oh, no, we're filming it, we already committed to this. Big Jud committed to this.

Nick: I'm just not sure if it's going to be part of the podcast. If it is part of the podcast, enjoy! Otherwise this is the late Lawrence Ballenger. He had a great life while he was here, but now he's gonna...

Lawrence Ballenger: I'm gonna go right back to 270 after this.

Heather: What about me? I'm probably going to die, too!

Nick: That's true. We'll have a new co-host next time, as well, and it was great fun having you here.

Lawrence Ballenger: Or she's gonna have a lot of sodium; her head's gonna be quite large.

Nick: She'll just swell up like a balloon. So, there's a ton of Lawrence on Bodybuilding.com. Where else do they find you?

Lawrence Ballenger: You guys can find me on Instagram and YouTube. I stopped using everything else, too much work.

Nick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Instagram and YouTube.

Heather: That's fair.

Lawrence Ballenger: Yep.

Nick: Yeah, the other ones are way too much work.

Lawrence Ballenger: Snapchat's gonna die.

Nick: They come with baggage.

Lawrence Ballenger: And Twitter's like, I'm not talking to people that much.

Nick: And Facebook is... Nah, you don't need Facebook at this point.

Lawrence Ballenger: No. Who's on Facebook?

Nick: Exactly! Not me. We're on Instagram like real people!

Heather Eastman: Like normal human beings.

Nick Collias: Look up Instagram and you're gonna see 30 burgers going into his face here shortly. Alright, thanks for coming man.

Lawrence Ballenger: Hey, thanks again, you guys.